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[Nemo492]

Un ballon ne s'élève pas contre le vent.
Sa direction a été confirmée par le service météo de la station de radio locale.

[Dam]

Y avait pas la lune ou vénus dans l'axe ?
C'est une des explications favorites des debunkers.. 

[là et demain]

Cela évoque une fusée, mais ça s'arrête là. Ça pouvait être un plasma, par exemple.

[GrandPas]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PXeDY3KOwgA/SsJA1yQ1lNI/AAAAAAAAEu4/hpJeuy2rCSM/s1600-h/Socorro+Officer+Saw+Two+Men+Step+Out+of+Big+UFO+-+Albuquerque+Tribune+2-25-1964.jpg

Source: http://www.theufochronicles.com/2009/09/socorro-officer-saw-two-men-step-out-of.html

Il est écrit que le témoin a vu deux personnes sortir de l'engin. Comme le suggère ironiquement Franck Warren, il a peut-être un Lunar Lander....
¨
Pour ce qui est de la fusée, je suis convaincu que notre esprit réinterpète les faits qu'il ne peut pas comprendre. Si l'engin décolle, c'est qu'il y a fusée.

[DecemberTen]

ne pePour ce qui est de la fusée, je suis convaincu que notre esprit réinterpète les faits qu'il ut pas comprendre. Si l'engin décolle, c'est qu'il y a fusée.

Là je suis tout à fait de ton avis; c'est le cas avec la vidéo assez récente qui a été tournée à Mexico, d'endroits opposés de la ville,  où l'on voit un ovni "pondre" des petits.... en chapelets de chaque côtés.

On a l'impression qu'un fil les relie les uns aux autres; l'esprit reconstitue ce lien qui "devrait être là" alors qu'objectivement, même en zoomant très fort, il n'y a rien.
J'avais pensé aussi à cette éventualité dans le cas de l'affaire Socorro.

[Nemo492]

L'avis de Frank Warren : "J'ai le sentiment que Tony Bragalia a exposé des informations intéressantes selon lesquelles “Socorro serait un canular”, et je pense, en tant que chercheur, que nous devons poursuivre l'enquête; cependant, avec le peu d'éléments qu'il a rassemblés, il me parait prématuré de conclure".

The Force is Disrupted

     One way to raise the hackles of the UFO faithful . . . to stir the proverbial pot, is to take a well-documented case and decree it false in some form or fashion; for example, stating that Kenneth Arnold witnessed “pelicans” on that fateful day in June of ’47; or the never-ending weather balloon argument for Roswell by well known debunkers; or the infamous “swamp gas” statement uttered by Allen Hynek while investigating the notable Michigan sightings of 1966, which precipitated then Congressman Gerald Ford to formally request a congressional investigation into the mysterious UFOs. When such instances occur it sends mild shockwaves throughout the UFO community, and evokes immediate and sometimes harsh responses.

Generally when these actions take place, the names of the perpetrators are very familiar to Ufologists; their ideologies are cemented in anti-Ufology rhetoric and the behavior is a component of what I call “cognitive bias” in the best examples, and just plain ignorance in the worst-case scenarios.

In that vein, it was quite a surprise to most when an article was published—not by the usual debunkers, but from a noted Ufologist, pronouncing a very prestigious case in UFO history a hoax! The case was The Socorro Incident, and the Ufologist is Tony Bragalia, whom I not only consider a friend, but also have the highest regard for, and am grateful for his efforts in Ufology.

Bragalia has been getting much deserved attention lately for his research into Roswell; our regular readers aren’t strangers to his work as he has been kind enough to allow us to publish his articles, here at TUC. Accordingly, we’ve published the article in question entitled, “THE SOCORRO UFO HOAX EXPOSED!”

Admittedly, I was intrigued by the piece and read it immediately, as did many of my colleagues and other Ufologists; the ripples in the Ufological pond have been felt long and far by his pronouncement. In contrast to my view on the bulk of his work with Roswell, and the reputation he is building as sober, salient UFO researcher, in this instance—I believe he has erred!

To be clear: I feel Tony has culled some significant data surrounding the idea that “Socorro was a hoax” and as a researcher, I feel this must be pursued; however, to pass judgment at this stage, with what little he has put on the table isn’t prudent in my view. Source

Ensuite, Frank Warren examine point par point les "découvertes" de son ami Bragalia.

[Michel-Vallée]

Anthony Bragalia publie la suite de son "exposé" (C'est pas moi qui le dit, c'est lui) sur Ufo Digest, ce 5 octobre 2009:

The Socorro UFO Hoax Exposed! PART 2

--> http://www.ufodigest.com/news/1009/socorro5.php

[Nemo492]

4 pages, pour conclure :
"J'espère dans un prochain article parvenir à identifier de manière certaine les étudiants qui auraient, etc..."

L'émission du Paracast avec Ray Stanford est disponible dès maintenant en Podcast :
http://www.theparacast.com/

[Michel-Vallée]

4 pages, pour conclure :
"J'espère dans un prochain article parvenir à identifier de manière certaine les étudiants qui auraient, etc..."

Hmmm... oui !
C'est pour ça que j'avais pris soin du petit rajout :

la suite de son "exposé" (C'est pas moi qui le dit, c'est lui)

Pour le moment, et malgré les qualités que je lui reconnait volontiers dans d'autres enquêtes,
il est encore loin de m'avoir "exposé" du suffisant pour me convaincre..

[Nemo492]

http://www.ovnis-usa.com/SONS/Paracast_Ray_Stanford-5oct09.mp3

L'émission de Ray Stanford sur The Paracast, 5 octobre 2009.
Le chercheur Christopher O'Brien intervient à 53mns.

Les éléments de Anthony Bragalia sont surtout discutés à partir de 1h11mns.

[dificultnspa]

americanchronicle.com

The Socorro Incident:
A Hoax Exposed or
a Case of Jumping The Gun?

Frank Warren

- A REBUTTAL -

The Force is Disrupted

One way to raise the hackles of the UFO faithful . . . to stir the proverbial pot, is to take a well-documented case and decree it false in some form or fashion; for example, stating that Kenneth Arnold witnessed "pelicans" on that fateful day in June of ´47; or the never-ending weather balloon argument for Roswell by well known debunkers; or the infamous "swamp gas" statement uttered by Allen Hynek while investigating the notable Michigan sightings of 1966, which precipitated then Congressman Gerald Ford to formally request a congressional investigation into the mysterious UFOs. When such instances occur it sends mild shockwaves throughout the UFO community, and evokes immediate and sometimes harsh responses.

Generally when these actions take place, the names of the perpetrators are very familiar to Ufologists; their ideologies are cemented in anti-Ufology rhetoric and the behavior is a component of what I call "cognitive bias" in the best examples, and just plain ignorance in the worst-case scenarios.


...



See Also:

THE SOCORRO UFO HOAX EXPOSED!

Socorro Officer Saw Two Men Step Out of Big UFO

SHARE YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

[Nemo492]

Message de Ray Stanford sur sa liste emails :

SURPRISE NOTICE TO ALL, WITH AN INVITATION TO SHARE WHAT YOU READ BELOW ON-LINE OR BY LETTER.:
 
Bragalia and Sterling Colgate are going to end up with egg on their faces from promoting the unfounded 'student prank' rumor concerning the Socorro CE-III case.  Their claims are of such character as to be unacceptable as testimony in any US court of law.  The egg on their faces will be facts about the egg-shaped (albeit an unusually elongated 'egg') vehicle which displayed two distinct modes of sophisticated propulsion technology (also seen in cases describing the same thing, from as much as ten years earlier, in 1954) that actually landed at Socorro after being observed by five Colorado tourists because it almost took the roof off their car, so they reported it to Socorro service station operator Opal Grinder and his son BEFORE the Zamora encounter was ever known publicly.
 
For some well-researched facts (instead of 45-years-after-the-fact totally unsubstantiated silliness) about the case from the only other person (me) who investigated the Socorro case with official USAF investigator, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, click The Paracast link, below. My in-Socorro investigation began on April 28, 1964 (the fourth day after the event), and next day, I was on-site participating, at Allen Hynek's unsolicited invitation, in the public-barred official USAF in-depth investigation involving, other than me, only Hynek, the central witness, Socorro police officer Lonnie Zamora, and N.M. State Police Sergeant Samuel Chavez (first person to arrive at the landing site after the object left), details of which are explained below:
 
http://www.theparacast.com
 
I can substantiate the facts presented there, and except for more recent and highly important physical-evidence findings described on The Paracast, I substantiated those facts in my 1976, 211-page book on the case titled Socorro Saucer [a pun, not the actual object shape, chosen for use in context of the rest of the title]in A Pentagon Pantry, subsequently praised in a now-published letter. To see it, click the link below and scroll down to Hynek's letter:
 
http://ourstrangeplanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=454&Itemid=60
 
A hard-bound copy of my 211-page, well-documented report on the Socorro case was donated to the technical library of  the NASA Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center by J. Allen Hynek. Personally, I'll take that as a recommendation, along with Hynek's praise letter, which you may have already read via the above link.
 
To anyone who can convince me that he or she is a bona-fide and relevantly-engaged employee of any of the main-stream TV, movie, radio, or print media, who provides me a 'snail-mail' address, I will quickly mail a like-new, never-read First Edition copy, with postage paid by me, of that hard-cover, 211-page, 1976 book. Just request the book and provide me evidence of employment status acceptable to my offering conditions, to: opus22@verizon.net .
 
Now, MOST IMPORTANTLY:
 
I hereby challenge Anthony Bragalia and/or Dr. Sterling Colgate to A DEBATE WITH ME ON THIS MATTER, provided that George Noory is agreeable, on Coast-to-Coast AM, and, that is, if both the prank proponents doesn't chicken-out.
 
But, hey, George, if they chicken out, I'd be happy to present evidence for that important case on your show, anyhow.  Heck, in that case, we could share chicken barbeque, or just an old fashioned chicken plucking good time.  )
 
From what I hear, I'm not the only person tired of seeing third-generation make-believe mislead a poorly-informed but UFO-interested public about the important Socorro CE-III ("Close Encounter of The Third Kind", Hynek's terminology) case of 45 years ago.
 
Ray Stanford
Founder and Director, Organization for Physical UFO Science
See: http://ourstrangeplanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=454&Itemid=60
Author of the 1976, 211-page out-of-print (except for copies in my possession) book on the Socorro case.

========================================

Trad : "Je défie Anthony Bragalia et/ou le Dr. Sterling Colgate de débattre avec moi chez George Noory sur Coast-to-to AM. Mais s'ils devaient se défiler, j'irai tout seul."

[elevenaugust]

Oui, c'est une bonne chose et je vois mal comment Anthony Bragalia pourrait mettre à mal le rapport d'enquête de Ray Stanford...

La phrase que j'ai retenu:
"From what I hear, I'm not the only person tired of seeing third-generation make-believe mislead a poorly-informed but UFO-interested public about the important Socorro CE-III ("Close Encounter of The Third Kind", Hynek's terminology) case of 45 years ago.".

"D'après ce que j'ai entendu, je ne suis pas le seul a être fatigué de voir la troisième génération faire semblant d'induire en erreur (de faire de la désinformation sur...) un public ufologique mal informé, mais intéressé par cet important cas de RR3 de Socorro qui date de 45 ans"....

[Michel-Vallée]

Anthony Bragalia vient de publier la troisième partie de son "exposé",
ce 2 novembre 2009 sur "Ufo Digest":

The Socorro UFO: Physical Evidence Points To A Prank (Part 3)

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/1109/pranksters.php

[Nemo492]

La réaction de Ray Stanford sur UFO Updates :

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:23:36 -0500
Subject: Ray Stanford's Open Letter To Tony Bragalia


(traduite ci-dessous par Diouf)