Durée : 07:37 Pris le : 13 juillet 2007
Larry King Live : Are UFO's Real? (preview) on July 13th, 2007CNN Larry King Live debates and discusses the Roswell incident and other UFO's Guests on this show included:
Dr Jesse Marcel Jr.
Lt. Walter Hauts' daughter - Julie Shuster
Stanton Friedman
Buzz Aldrin (seems someone reminded him to "keep a lid on it") Buzz does not mention L Shaped "something" as he has in the past, but CNN remembers what he has said in the past --
Check out a screen shot here regarding the L-Shaped "Something" :
George Noory (from Coast to Coast)
Michael Shermer(a loud-mouthed-know-it-all Skeptic. I wish a UFO would buzz right up his @ss!)
James Fox (Exec. Producer of "Out of the Blue" )
Former Gov Fife Symington (AZ Gov. from 1991 to 1997- during the Phoenix Lights in March 1997)
Read transcript from the show called:
Are UFO's Real?
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[justify]CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Are UFOs Real?
Aired July 13, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, was a UFO buzzing around the historic Apollo 11 moon mission?
Astronaut Buzz Aldrin tells us what he thinks he saw.
Arizona's former governor once dismissed the Phoenix lights that stunned hundreds of eyewitnesses 10 years ago. He'll explain why he now says they could not have been military flares.
Plus, the stories behind the close encounters former Presidents Jerry Ford and Jimmy Carter allegedly had.
And a return to Roswell, New Mexico, where the UFO controversy began 60 years ago with the man who says his father showed him debris from an alien spacecraft.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
It's a topic that won't go away -- 60 years ago, July 1947, the small town of Roswell, New Mexico went from obscurity to global renown after reports that UFO had crashed there.
Today, people who suggest the possibility that life exists in other galaxies look to Roswell as a modern event that seems to back up the theories.
We welcome Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. here in Los Angeles. He was shown UFO debris by his father, Major Jesse Marcel. He's author of "The Roswell Legacy."
Stanton Friedman, one of the foremost experts on Roswell and UFOs.
And in Roswell, New Mexico is Julie Shuster, executive director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center at Roswell. Julie's father, Walter Haut, was the public information officer at Roswell Air Base. He put out the press release about the UFO.
Dr. Marcel, tell us about your dad.
DR. JESSE MARCEL, JR. WAS SHOWN UFO DEBRIS BY HIS FATHER, MAJOR JESSE MARCEL; AUTHOR OF "THE ROSWELL LEGACY": Well, he was the base intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group, which is the bomb group that dropped the atomic bomb on Japan that won the war for us.
KING: They were based at Roswell?
MARCEL: They were based at Roswell, at Roswell Army Air Field.
And as the intelligence officer, his job was to investigate unusual events. And a rancher found some strange debris on his ranch land some miles northwest of Roswell. He called the sheriff and brought some to the sheriff. The sheriff didn't know what this was. So the sheriff then called the base commander, Colonel Blanchard, to look into this. And since my dad was the intelligence officer, he sent he and a CIC agent out to the ranch -- CIC was a forerunner of the CIA at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Counter Intelligence Corps.
MARCEL: Counter Intelligence Corps.
And when my dad got out there, he found a large area of strange looking debris. This was not remains of a weather balloon or a radar tordid (ph), because the rancher found those before. So this is totally different from that.
So in order to determine what this was, he picked up a certain representative portion of the debris, brought it in to Roswell. Now, it just so happens our house was on the way to Roswell, to the base there. So even though it's late at night, maybe 1:00 in the morning, he came in, woke my mother and myself up.
KING: You were a kid?
MARCEL: I was a kid. Eleven years old at that time. And he will already spread some debris out on the kitchen floor.
And he says, "Look at this. I think this is parts of a flying saucer," or words to that effect. And being a child, I was not quite sure what a flying saucer was, but he was so excited I thought, well, you know, I'd better look at this.
So, he says look for --
KING: He was a major?
MARCEL: He was a major at that time.
And he said, "Look at this. There's (INAUDIBLE) electronic components like vacuum tubes and resistors. It wasn't anything like that at all. But it was strange. There was foil. There was --
KING: So what eventually happened?
Did he --
MARCEL: OK.
What he did, he -- we looked at this for a period of time, then he gathered it had back up and then brought it back to the air base that night. And constituently he flew us to General Ramey's office in Fort Worth. And when he came home later, he told my mother and myself never talk about this again, that it was a non-event, don't talk about it, period.
STANTON FRIEDMAN, LEADING EXPERT ON UFOS AND ROSWELL INCIDENT: General Ramey was head of the 8th Air Force and Jesse reported to his boss, Colonel Blanchard. He reported to General Ramey.
KING: And this proceeded to lead to a cover-up, in your opinion?
FREIDMAN: There's no question because General Ramey's --
KING: A cover-up of what?
FREIDMAN: Well, OK. Interesting question. I think alien spacecraft. And they put phony wreckage out. This is General Ramey. And here's his chief of staff --
KING: I want to show this.
FREIDMAN: -- Thomas Jefferson Dubose -- and I managed to locate General Dubose, by this time a retired general, mind you, many years later. And he told me that he took a call from Ramey's boss in Washington telling him, "Get the press off our back. I don't care how you do it. Send some of that wreckage up here today."
There's a great headline, Larry.
KING: That's a great headline.
FREIDMAN: He said, "Send some of that wreckage up here today with one of your colonel couriers and I don't want you to ever talk about it again, not even with your buddy, Roger Ramey. That's an order. Do I need to put it in writing?"
No, sir.
KING: I've done so many shows on this --
FREIDMAN: I know.
KING: -- over the years, as you know. We went out in UFO territory in Nevada.
Where was that?
Fifty-one, Area 51.
FREIDMAN: Yes, near Rachel, Nevada.
KING: And what has never been answered is why cover it up?
FREIDMAN: On my Web site --
KING: OK, let's say there's life in outer space.
FREIDMAN: That isn't the question -- KING: And let's say they came here. OK.
FREIDMAN: That isn't the question --
KING: Did they -- were they out to destroy us, what?
FREIDMAN: I have a paper on my Web site called "The UFO Why Questions," and that's the biggest one -- why the cover-up?
I give six reasons. You want to figure out how to work, they make wonderful delivery and defense systems. You've got wreckage. Rule number one for security -- I worked under security for 14 years, Larry -- is you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies. They listen to you, too, after all.
KING: So you're still working on this 40 years later?
You're still working on?
FREIDMAN: yes, believe it or not.
KING: All right, Julie --
FREIDMAN: (INAUDIBLE) --
KING: Hold on.
Julie Shuster is the executive director of the International UFO.
Your father was -- and a famous name, Walter Haut -- he was public information officer.
Was he asked to cover it up, too?
JULIE SHUSTER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL UFO MUSEUM AT ROSWELL: My father all along said that he issued the press release. And when he asked to see the debris, he said no.
He -- as far as the cover-up, part of -- being part of the cover- up, no, to my knowledge he was not.
KING: What did the press release say?
SHUSTER: The press release basically said -- and using his words, because I've heard it many, many times -- was we have in our possession a flying saucer. It's being flown to higher headquarters in Fort Worth. And his biggest regret on that press release was using the words "it's being flown to higher headquarters," because the media called from around the world saying how did they know how to fly it?
And he had to explain it was being put on aircraft.
and then he would, you know, that was his biggest thing. And he said -- but he would also add, but it was not of this Earth.
So that was basically his story. KING: That was the release
What did your father believe?
SHUSTER: My father believed it was not of this Earth. It was not a craft of ours. It was something unknown. And he used the words "not of this Earth." He was very emphatic about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me that, too.
KING: Do you know why we have not heard of it -- or what's your guess, Jesse in, a long time?
MARCEL: Well, I'm not sure why we haven't heard about it because I think the American public is well enough informed about space to know about this, that they deserve to know that there's another life out there, that we're not the only ones. Because if we are, there's an awful lot of wasted space out there.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more.
Our full show tonight devoted to UFOs.
We have a skeptic, as well. He'll be with us.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The strange wreckage that Brasile discovered spanned an area 300 yards wide by a mile long. That parcel of land, known to investigators as the debris field, is where some believe an extraterrestrial craft blew apart and fell to Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JUNE 1997)
COL. JOHN HAYNES, U.S. AIR FORCE: Over a period of time, dummies were dropped all around there. And I think it's logical to assume that the people there saw Air Force ambulances come out. They saw gurneys come out. They saw body bags come out because the dummies were put into the body bags to protect them. They saw people in pith helmets. They saw people in shorts out there brushing the bushes, looking for the remnants of the balloons.
And when you put all that stuff together and spin it, you find that it fits perfectly with many of the occurrences in Roswell during that era.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Remaining with us, Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. Stanton Friedman and Julie Shuster. By the way, Dr. Marcel wrote "The Roswell Legacy."
The forward was written by Stanton Friedman.
Joining us now, Michael Shermer, the publisher of "Skeptic" magazine. "Skeptic" did a whole issue, or a major part of an issue, on Roswell a couple of years back.
And James Fox, filmmaker, executive producer of the feature length documentary, "Out of the Blue: The Definitive Investigation of the UFO Phenomenon." That documentary is narrated by our good friend, Peter Coyote and was just released on DVD.
Is that the one where -- in which Presidents Carter and Ford discuss their sightings?
JAMES FOX, FILMMAKER WHO EXECUTIVE PRODUCED THE AWARD-WINNING, FEATURE-LENGTH DOCUMENTARY OUT OF THE BLUE: THE DEFINITIVE INVESTIGATION OF THE UFO PHENOMENON: Yes.
KING: What do they say?
FOX: Jimmy Carter said he actually saw a UFO and he describes -- he was with, I think, 10 witnesses and --
KING: He was on a plane, right?
FOX: No, he was actually standing outside in Georgia, I believe. And that was when he was a Congressman. And he said it just shot off --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was governor.
FOX: Governor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was governor.
FOX: Governor. I'm so sorry. Excuse me. He was governor. And it shot off at a high rate of speed and disappeared.
KING: And Ford?
FOX: Ford was involved -- it was a very major sighting. It was the equivalent sighting that happened over at the State of Arizona that has actually happened over in Chicago, what was it, 1966, Stanton Friedman?
FREIDMAN: I'm not sure.
FOX: I think it was 1966. But the Air Force came forward with some swamp gas explanation and Ford --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was Michigan.
FOX: -- pushed for -- Michigan, yes. Ford pushed for Congressional hearings and he admitted that on (INAUDIBLE) -- KING: And that's out in DVD now, right?
FOX: yes.
KING: Michael, what do you make of all of this?
MICHAEL SHERMER, PUBLISHER, "SKEPTIC" MAGAZINE: Well, I think it's good to start with separating two separate questions -- are there extraterrestrial intelligences somewhere in the cosmos and have they come here?
So, we have no evidence for either one. The probabilities are probably we're not alone, so -- but it's a vast, empty universe, it's hard to get here and so forth.
The set of evidences used to prove that they've come here are sub what we would expect in a scientific debate. For example, if you're a biologist and you want to name a new species, you have to actually have a type specimen, an actual body. So I always say to the Loch Ness monster people or Big Foot or aliens, show me the body.
I mean once we have that, then we have what scientists consider to be empirical data, where we can dissect it, photograph it, discuss it, look at it and so forth.
So far, this is still at the level of grainy videos, blurry photographs and anecdotes about things that go bump in the night.
KING: But what about strange metals being taken away --
SHERMER: Well --
KING: -- and told not to say anything about it?
SHERMER: OK.
So, first of all, do governments lie?
Do they have security cover-ups?
Do they have military secrets?
Yes, of course. So --
KING: But while --
SHERMER: This is in the middle of the cold war. These -- this debris that was shown in the photograph was described as -- and it looks like -- balsa wood, tape, balloons. And, in fact, this is Project --
FREIDMAN: Not true, Larry.
SHERMER: -- this is Project Mogul.
So, in the middle of the cold war we're launching these high altitude balloons to monitor Soviet upper atmosphere nuclear explosions.
FREIDMAN: Larry, we're simply ignoring the evidence. Dr. Shermer isn't a skeptic, he's a debunker. He starts with the presumption there's nothing to this. The explanation is away from the reality.
There's no question that that stuff isn't part of what Jesse Marcel brought in.
SHERMER: Wait. This looks like balsa wood and tape --
FREIDMAN: Of course, it does.
(CROSSTALK)
FREIDMAN: But that's not what was found --
SHERMER: And that's what they said it is.
FREIDMAN: That's not what was found --
SHERMER: Yes, it is.
FREIDMAN: -- out in the desert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This stuff was switched.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They switched it. This is not what --
FREIDMAN: The original descriptions on July 8th are very different. The rancher was grabbed, brought back into town, fed a whole new story with information that simply doesn't fit reality.
SHERMER: But, of course, because --
FREIDMAN: The mogul balloon explanation doesn't fit.
SHERMER: It --
FREIDMAN: The materials are wrong, the location is wrong, the timing is wrong.
SHERMER: Would it -- would it surprise anybody to learn that our government told people don't say this, do say that, because we're in the middle of a cold war?
FREIDMAN: That isn't the question.
SHERMER: Of course. That is what happened.
FREIDMAN: The question is to look at the evidence and what he saw --
MARCEL: I saw something totally different from that --
KING: Now, he saw --
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Now, wait a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not what was recovered.
KING: He's the only one in the room that saw something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KING: Eleven years old, but remembers it.
MARCEL: I remember that very well, in spite of being 11, because it was such a very intriguing experience. Now, the most important thing I saw was the bean-like material that had some strange -- some symbols along the inner surface. They were purple, violet, semi- reflective of light but small, about three eights of an inch in diameter or in length.
KING: They didn't look like anything you'd ever seen?
MARCEL: I thought at first it was like Egyptian hieroglyphics, but it wasn't. It was more like mathematical or geometric symbols. And that's -- they're all --
KING: Did you have another guess for it?
MARCEL: Not at that time, no.
FREIDMAN: His father told me, when I first talked to him back in the '70s, that there was nothing conventional out on that field. We've got an area three quarters of a mile long, hundreds of feet wide -- nothing conventional.
KING: Julie, did your father see it?
SHUSTER: My father came out with a statement after his death, we released that, said he did see the craft, yes.
KING: He did see it?
SHUSTER: Yes, sir.
Find anything in the craft?
Did he find anything in the craft?
SHUSTER: I don't know. He doesn't go into that in the statement and he didn't -- he was not privy. He was not out at the site.
What he saw, I believe, was at the Air Force base.
KING: Weaponry aside, Michael, if there are extraterrestrials, why hide it?
SHERMER: Yes, right?
That's what I say, why hide it?
But, look, this would be the greatest discovery in the history of science. NASA would be elated, of course. They'd could go to Congress and get more funding.
Why would anybody cover this up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all.
SHERMER: And look what happens when they make even the smallest discoveries. Of course, we hear all about it.
KING: James?
FOX: I have a question to ask you.
SHERMER: Yes?
FOX: If UFOs -- and I'm speaking hypothetically for a moment here -- if UFOs are real, it would be one of the greatest discoveries of our time. Do you agree with that?
SHERMER: Of course.
FOX: Now, if UFOs were -- and I use the word if -- were buzzing around in our airspace, who would be best equipped to know about it?
SHERMER: Well, our government, perhaps.
FOX: The military?
SHERMER: Maybe. But maybe not.
KING: Yes, all right --
(CROSSTALK)
FOX: So we've got the highest ranking military officials in the world telling us right now that these things are real. We've got generals --
SHERMER: No.
FOX: We've got admirals, we've got colonels, we've got presidents, governors.
What do --
SHERMER: (INAUDIBLE) --
FOX: If we can't believe them, who can we believe?
SHERMER: OK.
A lack of evidence --
FOX: I'm sorry, if we can't believe them, who can we believe?
SHERMER: Well, I --
FREIDMAN: There's physical traces --
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMER: Well, I -- I wouldn't necessarily --
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMER: Listen, guys, guys, wait.
FREIDMAN: Evidence. You don't talk about evidence.
SHERMER: This is simply a lack of evidence. So when I say --
FREIDMAN: No.
SHERMER: Where is the spacecraft, you say they hid it.
Where is the documentation?
They covered it up.
This is like the weapons of mass destruction thing.
Where is the evidence?
The fact that we can't find any means that they're there because it's not (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Let me get a break and we'll be right back with more on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is our relationship to the larger reality?
SEAN THACKERY, CIVILIAN SIGHTING, MARIN, CALIFORNIA: I looked up and all of a sudden there was this, you know -- I've got to say it, flying saucer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It didn't even make a sound, not even a sound.
RENATO NICOLAI, CIVILIAN SIGHTING, FRANCE: I saw one, but I don't whether it just disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(VIDEO OF AN ALIEN DOLL) KING: The skeptic here is the only one that brings these.
(LAUGHTER).
SHERMER: He drinks beer, too.
FREIDMAN: We worry about evidence. We don't worry about --
KING: The truth is, James, we want it to be true.
Don't you think 90 percent of the public wants it to be true?
FOX: I challenge anyone out there who is watching this show tonight -- and I bring this to your attention, as well -- to watch "Out of the Blue" and conclude there's nothing to this phenomenon. It's impossible.
SHERMER: Well, when you say nothing to it, of course, there's something to explain.
FOX: It's inexplicable.
SHERMER: Before we say something is out of this world, let's first make sure that it's not in this world. And there's nothing out of this world --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, (INAUDIBLE) --
SHERMER: -- and there's so much we don't know about the natural --
FOX: Process of elimination.
SHERMER: -- world. There's so much we --
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMER: It could be military aircraft.
FOX: No, hang on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: There's a 1997 event in your film, right?
FOX: yes.
KING: What happened?
FOX: A very massive craft flew over the State of Arizona. It was witnessed --
SHERMER: Maybe.
FOX: No. It's a fact.
SHERMER: Light.
FOX: OK?
SHERMER: Light.
FOX: No, a craft.
(CROSSTALK)
FOX: These kids said you could have hit it with a rock --
SHERMER: Don't say massive. Just --
FOX: -- it was so low.
SHERMER: -- something.
FOX: It was a massive craft that flew -- this -- this kid said he could have hit it with a rock.
SHERMER: Well, so what?
(CROSSTALK)
KING: We're watching this now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you're not.
Larry, you're not watching that --
KING: Oh, That's not it?
Wrong information.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, that's right.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the B roll from the footage, but it's --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that is the Phoenix lights. That's right.
FREIDMAN: No. Those are the flares seen at 10:00, not the massive thing --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think of that as eye candy over --
FREIDMAN: -- seen earlier in the evening by --
(CROSSTALK)
FOX: Larry, think of any of this trying to --
KING: One at a time.
FOX: Let me finish. Let me finish.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was night.
FOX: So, there were a lot of people out under the night sky looking up to get a glimpse of the Hale-Bopp Comet. And at about 8:30 this very large boomerang shaped craft flew over and was witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people.
About two months later, an article brought it -- it got a lot of local media and an article broke in "USA Today" which pretty much put it into the forefront of -- in the U.S. The story broke.
And Fife Symington came forward and had a press conference and said he was going to get to the bottom of it. He was the governor of Arizona at the time. And later that afternoon, he had a press conference -- an unscheduled press conference where he had one of his aides dressed up in an alien suit and made a joke out of the whole thing.
Well, I was always puzzled because I spoke to many of the witnesses that saw this craft and I was wondering that like why he did, why he did what he did.
So I contacted him 10 years later and he recanted -- not only did he recant the statement, he said he investigated --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
FOX: -- he investigated the whole -- the thing, and then he himself, who was a captain in the Air Force, saw it.
KING: All right, let me ask some fair questions.
FOX: OK.
KING: Are you open to the possibility, Michael?
SHERMER: Of course. I mean all science is open to that. But -- but -- but just being open to it and what we would like to be true, does not make it true.
KING: Are you open to the possibility, Jesse, you're wrong?
MARCEL: I am. But not really.
(LAUGHTER).
MARCEL: Not really.
SHERMER: Well, look, Larry, this has all the earmarks of a myth. It started, really, in the late 1980s. If you look in the UFO literature of the 1940s, '50s and '60s, there's almost no mention of Roswell. Other incidences are the big meccas of the UFO-ology (ph). This becomes --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That shows you how successful they were.
SHERMER: This becomes -- 40 years after the fact eyewitnesses start remembering things. We know about the psychology of misremembering, confabulation of different memories.
KING: Well, all right --
SHERMER: We know that -- and think about just one thing.
Why would the aliens look like this?
KING: Well, that's --
SHERMER: These are bipedal --
KING: Who drew that?
Who drew that?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, where did you get that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't need to pay you money to draw an alien.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- only one that believes in an alien.
SHERMER: This is -- this comes from television (INAUDIBLE) --
KING: Yes, but that's not drawn (INAUDIBLE) --
SHERMER: -- (INAUDIBLE) from eyewitness accounts. And once it got started, once this image began --
KING: You mean from like from the national trade whacko magazine?
SHERMER: Yes, that's right. But once that became the image of what aliens would look like, that's what people began to see in their dreams and their abduction experiences.
KING: E.T.?
SHERMER: That's right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now wait a minute.
SHERMER: So --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can't go unchallenged. (CROSSTALK)
KING: Hold it.
(CROSSTALK)
FREIDMAN: The Betty and Barney Hill case goes back to 1961. It's a new book by myself and Betty's niece. There was a book in 1966 by John Fuller, "The Interrupted Journey," a best-seller all over the world, a television movie, James Earl Jones in it, 1975.
This updates it by 40 years or so because Kathleen has all her great stuff.
KING: And?
FREIDMAN: They were strange little guys and the work was done to illicit these memories by a psychiatrist who had no interest in UFOs, didn't believe in flying saucers, kept trying to make them think oh, it was Betty's dream.
And one of the things we do in the book is go over how he was pushing them in the direction of not alien, despite all the evidence that it was alien.
SHERMER: But, Stan, you know that on Earth, primates have only evolved once.
What are the chances of that happening on some other planet --
FREIDMAN: we don't know.
SHERMER: -- and then, and they're looking pretty much like us. And -- and --
FREIDMAN: We don't know.
SHERMER: And then they come here and find us.
What are the chances of that?
FREIDMAN: The chances are very good because
SHERMER: It's more likely --
FREIDMAN: -- because that's what --
SHERMER: -- more likely that we are hallucinating --
FREIDMAN: -- the evidence shows.
SHERMER: -- these sorts of --
FOX: So you're saying the governor of Arizona was hallucinating --
SHERMER: No, no.
FOX: -- and thousands of other witnesses --
SHERMER: No. No, no, no, no, no, no.
FOX: -- didn't see that?
SHERMER: No, that's a different story. UFOs are literally just unidentified flying objects.
KING: Julie --
SHERMER: In science, it's OK to just say we don't know.
KING: Julie, did your father go to his grave believing?
SHUSTER: yes, he did. He really did. He was very firm in the fact that he said it was not of this Earth. You know, one of the things that seems to be being forgotten, to me, is the fact that that July 8th, 1947 newspaper is a fact. You know, we may not have a lot of the scientific evidence that is being discussed, but that newspaper and the July 9th are facts.
I mean those are evidence in themselves. And that says it happened, you know?
So my father said it did. Numerous people -- you know, I was born and raised here. I know these people. They're real people and they had better things to do with their lives than make up a hoax.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She brings up a really good point, too.
SHERMER: But not hoax.
Why not just honestly misperceiving something?
What's -- we know that people --
FREIDMAN: The only atomic bombing group in the world --
SHERMER: -- honestly misunderstand --
FREIDMAN: -- with a lead group, a military group and hand picked officers and hand picked men, and they're making up stories?
Walter wasn't just a PIO --
SHERMER: Stan, Stan, your whole case is still based on anecdotes. We've got to have --
FREIDMAN: Because that's --
SHERMER: We need something more than that.
FREIDMAN: -- absolutely nonsense. We have 3,000 physical --
SHERMER: What else have you got?
FREIDMAN: -- trace cases.
SHERMER: Where?
FREIDMAN: We have multiple witnesses.
SHERMER: Where?
FREIDMAN: Well, go look.
SHERMER: I brought something.
What did you bring? Where's -- f
KING: Oh, we have a headline that you wanted to show.
SHERMER: Where's one of those probes from the dashboard?
FREIDMAN: I didn't say probes.
SHERMER: Where's one of the gadgets from the --
FREIDMAN: I said physical trace cases --
SHERMER: -- spacecraft?
Where --
FREIDMAN: -- multiple visual cases.
SHERMER: Give us something, you know, like an on --
FREIDMAN: I'm saying photographs examined by scientists.
SHERMER: Yes, but (INAUDIBLE) photographs.
FREIDMAN: -- by scientists who say --
(CROSSTALK)
FREIDMAN: you're making proclamations, you're not doing investigation.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: All right, I've got to get a break.
But I want to show this headline first.
This is from the "Roswell Daily Record": "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch In Roswell Region."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roswell Army Airfield is the initials.
KING: We thank you, Dr. Marcel and Julie for being with us. They will be gone.
Others will be coming in.
Later in our next half hour, astronaut Buzz Aldrin and what he has to say about a certain UFO sighting. It's very important.
Stick around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM MARCH 14, 1997)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do these lights belong to visitors from outer space?
Hundreds of people across the valley think it's a distinct possibility. Good evening.
I'm Mark Bailey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I'm Robin Sewell (ph).
Thanks for joining us. We start tonight with the strange dots of light that were the talk of the town.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, everybody was excited about the comet but in the middle of that, these very mysterious lights appeared over Phoenix, over Maricopa County.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LARRY KING, HOST: Welcome back.
Just a quick heads up for all your computer savvy viewers, our later podcast is now available online. You can you download it at any time you want. It's my interview with some of professional wrestling's biggest names past and present, people like Chris Jericho and John Ceno, and Brett Hart. They talk about the life and death of former wrestling star Chris Benoit. To download it, just go to CNN.com/LarryKing or subscribe to iTunes.
Stanton Friedman remains with us, so does Michael Shermer, so does James Fox whose film "Out of The Blue: The Definitive Investigation of The UFO Phenomena" is available on DVD. And we're now joined by George Noory, the host of "Coast to Coast," a radio show that counts a large number of UFO enthusiasts among its listeners.
How did that develop, George?
GEORGE NOORY, HOST, "COAST TO COAST": Larry, we followed in your footsteps. Of course, you made the fort for us. And then Art Bell came along and then I replaced Art.
KING: Oh, so you do the all-night show.
NOORY: I do the "Coast to Coast" A.M. all night show.
KING: And I never got UFO callers.
NOORY: Never?
KING: No. Occasionally but Bell got...
NOORY: Art got all of them. He got them all.
KING: And now you get them.
NOORY: And now I get what used...
KING: All right, what percentage are Kookyville?
NOORY: Kookyville, I'd say about 10 percent. That's honestly.
KING: Have you become a believer?
NOORY: I have believed that this planet has been visited since I was a little boy. My mother brought me home a book once by Walter Sullivan the late "New York Times" science writer called "We Are Not Alone." I was convinced that there was something going on.
Ironically when I was 21, my very first radio interview was with Stanton Friedman in Detroit, first one. And he hasn't changed since.
KING: Do you book people like Michael Shermer on?
NOORY: Michael has been on the program. He is what I call my skeptic. He debates people.
MICHAEL SHERMER, "SKEPTIC" MAGAZINE: I go in the cage.
NOORY: He goes in the cage. Two go in, one comes out.
KING: What do you think the answer is to the unanswerable? If it happened why is it covered up?
NOORY: I don't necessarily know, Larry, why it's covered up. But a couple of things have happened just in the last several weeks. You just had Julie on, Walter Haut's daughter. Walter signed an affidavit in 2002. He died in 2005. That affidavit was just released several weeks ago that testifies that he saw the crash. He saw some of the occupants.
And then another person, his name is Clark McLellan, who is not very happy with NASA anymore, but he worked on the ground shuttle fleet. He says that he walked with Werner von Braun, the father of modern day rocketry. And he said von Braun told him that he saw the debris as Roswell and aliens that had snake skin.
It's an amazing story. And you know Stanton is aware of this.
[/justify]
Source:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/13/lkl.02.html
